Bug 2035778

(In reply to Jiri Prajzner from comment #0)
> dash:
> firefox, files, software, help, terminal, show applications grid

Having "Help" in the dash is expected, see bug 958196.


(In reply to Jiri Prajzner from comment #0)
> Expected results:
> 
> utilities folder:
> red hat subscription manager, selinux troubleshooter, tour, help, disk usage
> analyzer, disks, characters, logs, fonts

The Utilities folder is set up by gnome-software, so if we want to deviate from upstream, that's where the change should happen.

(In reply to Florian Müllner from comment #1)
> The Utilities folder is set up by gnome-software, so if we want to deviate
> from upstream, that's where the change should happen.

Florian, could you elaborate a bit more on this, please? I have no idea how GNOME Shell gets this information from the gnome-software, thus I'd need your help to know where these things come from. Reading gnome-shell code to figure that out is something I prefer to avoid.

(In reply to Milan Crha from comment #2)
> (In reply to Florian Müllner from comment #1)
> > The Utilities folder is set up by gnome-software, so if we want to deviate
> > from upstream, that's where the change should happen.
> 
> Florian, could you elaborate a bit more on this, please? I have no idea how
> GNOME Shell gets this information from the gnome-software, thus I'd need
> your help to know where these things come from. Reading gnome-shell code to
> figure that out is something I prefer to avoid.

App folders use a relocatable GSettings schema, so it's not possible for the schema to provide a default value. A default has to be set programmatically, and (mostly for historic reasons) the component that is responsible is gnome-software:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/-/blob/main/src/gs-folders.c#L27

Thank you, Florian.

If I understand this correctly, then the `dash` is out of the gnome-software control - it's just a list of the favourite applications defined by the user (with some default).

The gnome-software controls the `/org/gnome/desktop/app-folders/folders/Utilities/apps` key in the DConf. Unless I overlooked something, you suggest to default in RHEL to the same values as the upstream, plus add there these apps:

   'subscription-manager-cockpit.desktop',
   'setroubleshoot.desktop',
   'org.gnome.Tour.desktop',
   'yelp.desktop'

It's doable, but not for updates, this would influence only new installations (or new users).

Is it okay?

One other option is to change the `/org/gnome/desktop/app-folders/folders/Utilities/categories` from `['X-GNOME-Utilities']` to `['X-GNOME-Utilities', 'Utility']` - this way any categorized .desktop file with the Utility category will automatically be places into the `Utilities` group. This covers yelp.desktop, but not the org.gnome.Tour.desktop nor the setroubleshoot.desktop (the later would need `System` category, which would match also the subscription-manager-cockpit.desktop).

--------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way, I miss why this is part of the gnome-software, when it has no use of it. That's really odd. I opened for it:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/-/issues/1602

(In reply to Milan Crha from comment #4)

> The gnome-software controls the
> `/org/gnome/desktop/app-folders/folders/Utilities/apps` key in the DConf.
> Unless I overlooked something, you suggest to default in RHEL to the same
> values as the upstream, plus add there these apps:
> 
>    'subscription-manager-cockpit.desktop',
>    'setroubleshoot.desktop',
>    'org.gnome.Tour.desktop',
>    'yelp.desktop'

As I mentioned before, yelp is in the dash because of a downstream patch. I don't mind dropping that, but I don't want to get into a "help should be as visible as possible" <-> "help should be as hidden as possible" ping pong game.

Regarding Tour, that's an upstream component. Is there really a strong reason for deviating from upstream and moving it into a folder?



> One other option is to change the
> `/org/gnome/desktop/app-folders/folders/Utilities/categories` from
> `['X-GNOME-Utilities']` to `['X-GNOME-Utilities', 'Utility']` - this way any
> categorized .desktop file with the Utility category will automatically be
> places into the `Utilities` group.

I advise against that. Except when creating the default folder, app folders are meant to be under user control. That means that apps should only be added to a folder because of an explicit user action. It would be rather surprising to most users when a newly installed application doesn't appear in the application grid.


> By the way, I miss why this is part of the gnome-software, when it has no
> use of it. That's really odd. I opened for it:
> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/-/issues/1602

Before gnome-shell's app grid was made configurable via drag-and-drop, folder management was implemented in gnome-software.

> folder management was implemented in gnome-software.

That supports my idea then, because the current code in the gnome-software doesn't do anything but filling the default value.

So far this is a single voice request. I ask the designer for the decision, as I'm not the decision maker here.

(In reply to Florian Müllner from comment #5)
> (In reply to Milan Crha from comment #4)
> 
> > The gnome-software controls the
> > `/org/gnome/desktop/app-folders/folders/Utilities/apps` key in the DConf.
> > Unless I overlooked something, you suggest to default in RHEL to the same
> > values as the upstream, plus add there these apps:
> > 
> >    'subscription-manager-cockpit.desktop',
> >    'setroubleshoot.desktop',
> >    'org.gnome.Tour.desktop',
> >    'yelp.desktop'
> 
> As I mentioned before, yelp is in the dash because of a downstream patch. I
> don't mind dropping that, but I don't want to get into a "help should be as
> visible as possible" <-> "help should be as hidden as possible" ping pong
> game.

I totally understand that. Are there any data on how often is the Help used?

> 
> Regarding Tour, that's an upstream component. Is there really a strong
> reason for deviating from upstream and moving it into a folder?

It's used only once, if it's used the way it is intended and I guess people just close/skip that if they feel like...

> 
> 
> 
> > One other option is to change the
> > `/org/gnome/desktop/app-folders/folders/Utilities/categories` from
> > `['X-GNOME-Utilities']` to `['X-GNOME-Utilities', 'Utility']` - this way any
> > categorized .desktop file with the Utility category will automatically be
> > places into the `Utilities` group.
> 
> I advise against that. Except when creating the default folder, app folders
> are meant to be under user control. That means that apps should only be
> added to a folder because of an explicit user action. It would be rather
> surprising to most users when a newly installed application doesn't appear
> in the application grid.
> 
> 
> > By the way, I miss why this is part of the gnome-software, when it has no
> > use of it. That's really odd. I opened for it:
> > https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/-/issues/1602
> 
> Before gnome-shell's app grid was made configurable via drag-and-drop,
> folder management was implemented in gnome-software.

My main reaction is that only four apps in the dash would feel rather empty (really, the original five is too low). Whether help is in there or not is something that I'm less concerned about.

Allan, would you do any changes in the RHEL9 in this regard, please? I tend to close this as WontFix.

For what it's worth, the upstream finally moved the related data into the gnome-shell, where it belongs:
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-shell/-/merge_requests/2110
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-software/-/merge_requests/1157

ping Allan Day.

Apologies for the slow reply.

It seems that the proposal in this bug is to:

1. Move subscription manager, selinux troubleshooter and tour to the utilities folder.
2. Move image viewer, document viewer and screenshot from the utilities folder into the main application grid.
3. Move help from the dash into the utilities folder.

I hope that's correct.

When it comes to the app grid and dash, we need to balance some different factors:

1. The appropriate level of visibility of an app
2. The correct semantic categorisation of each app in the folders
3. Cohesive organisation of the overall app set
4. Visual layout of the dash and grid, particularly with a view to making sure that these areas don't look awkward and empty

On that basis:

* The proposal to move selinux troubleshooter makes sense - this is primarily a utility that people interact with via notifications, and is for dealing with errors, so it would be better if it wasn't so prominent.
* Moving screenshot to the main grid is also a possibility, on the basis that, while it is a utility, it is also one that people use a fair bit (similar to calculator). Though I'm not convinced that it's actually worth the effort to change this.

However, the other proposed changes seem less convincing:

* Subscription manager - maybe it is utility, but there is value in making the subscription element of the product visible
* Tour - some people skip the onboarding and might want to run it later; if it's in utilities they might not realise that it's there
* Image viewer and document viewer  - these are primarily launched through the file manager - people don't generally launch them directly
* Help being in the dash helps with onboarding for new users

If you (people here) agree to do it, then I can do it. Or I can WontFix the bug. I do not mind, I only need to know what the best of this bug is.