Bug 150724 - Evince doesn't have all the features of gv, which is now Extras
Evince doesn't have all the features of gv, which is now Extras
Status: CLOSED UPSTREAM
Product: Fedora
Classification: Fedora
Component: evince (Show other bugs)
rawhide
All Linux
medium Severity medium
: ---
: ---
Assigned To: Marco Pesenti Gritti
:
Depends On:
Blocks:
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2005-03-09 17:44 EST by Michal Jaegermann
Modified: 2007-11-30 17:11 EST (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Fixed In Version:
Doc Type: Bug Fix
Doc Text:
Story Points: ---
Clone Of:
Environment:
Last Closed: 2005-05-31 06:39:56 EDT
Type: ---
Regression: ---
Mount Type: ---
Documentation: ---
CRM:
Verified Versions:
Category: ---
oVirt Team: ---
RHEL 7.3 requirements from Atomic Host:


Attachments (Terms of Use)

  None (edit)
Description Michal Jaegermann 2005-03-09 17:44:26 EST
Description of problem:

On my aside, and obvious to anybody who tried at least once to run
both programs, remark in but #149911 that evince is missing tons of
functionality present in gv I was asked for an explicit list what
is missing.  Here we go.  The following are provided by gv but nowhere
in sight in evince:

 - A file watch (an automatic reload when changed)
 - An information about mouse location (in PS points, hence an
   ability to measure various elements)
 - Ability to mark pages and save and/or print a subset of a document
 - Control over antialiasing
 - Control over how documented is interpreted (EOF comments,
   structured comments)
 - Control over an automatic resizing
 - Control over orientation
 - Ability to override a paper size
 - Ability to show enlarged _fragments_ of a document without
   affecting an overall magnification
 - Ability to specify a desired scaling factor instead of doing
   only Ctrl+ and Ctrl-
 - Ability to override a default bounding box
 - Ability to change default ghostcript options
 - Handling Poscript, and PDF, files which evince does not want
   to touch (see bug #150719 and bug #150722)

All of the above in an executable considerably smaller in size
than evince (and it is likely that I missed something)

If you think that the above is "just a list" then you are deeply
mistaken.  I used all capabilities above and they were important, some
more often and some indeed only occasionally, when _working_ with
assorted PostScript files as opposed to just looking at some pictures.

Other things which are sorely missing is a possibilty of opening a
document in a natural size instead of something scrunched and
unreadable and an easy way to randomly navigate between document
pages.  If I have to switch to page number window, type there a page
number without making mistakes and hit <enter> then in comparison with
gv this is far from good enough.

Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):
evince-0.1.7-1
Comment 1 Bryan W Clark 2005-03-28 10:09:48 EST
(In reply to comment #0)
Thanks for the list, I'll let you know what's out there for Evince in terms of
similar features.  Just fair warning that Evince probably won't be duplicating
all the featues of gv as it is not just a rewrite of that program.  If you need
certain features of gv and Evince does not have those you might want to continue
using that program instead.

Anytime I ask why you're using a feature here is just so I can get an
understanding of what you're doing, I'm not questioning your usage of it.

>  - A file watch (an automatic reload when changed)
We have a reload button, see: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165119

>  - An information about mouse location (in PS points, hence an
>    ability to measure various elements)
This is possible to add to the status bar, please file a separate bug for this.

>  - Ability to mark pages and save and/or print a subset of a document
Filed upstream, please work with this bug:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=169099

>  - Control over antialiasing
Upstream Evince is working on antialias vector graphics:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=166663  However, we're not going to
add a control or preference to turn this on or off.  

These I'm not sure about either what they are or why you need it:
>  - Ability to override a default bounding box
>  - Control over how documented is interpreted (EOF comments,
>    structured comments)

>  - Control over an automatic resizing
Control the automatic resizing?  Is this about choosing the right zoom level
like I mention below?

>  - Ability to override a paper size
In printing?  Printing yes, it's part of the options.  I'm not sure why else you
want this unless the document has given the incorrect size.

>  - Ability to show enlarged _fragments_ of a document without
>    affecting an overall magnification
Interesting, how does this work and what is it used for?

>  - Control over orientation
Upstream is working on a rotation feature:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168896

>  - Ability to specify a desired scaling factor instead of doing
>    only Ctrl+ and Ctrl-
This may be done, I'm looking into a better Zoom control that might allow you to
type in the zoom level and provide necessary defaults.  Please file this bug
separately.

>  - Ability to change default ghostcript options
If the current default gs options are wrong please file a bug on what the right
defaults are, however we're probably not going to add controls or preferences
for changing this during use.

>  - Handling Poscript, and PDF, files which evince does not want
>    to touch (see bug #150719 and bug #150722)
This is an on going battle. :-)

> All of the above in an executable considerably smaller in size
> than evince (and it is likely that I missed something)

The size of the Evince executable is not part of it's design.  Evince is
designed for people to view documents easily and if that makes it a large
program then so be it.  If you need a smaller Evince you'll have to send patches
that shrink it's size without harming it's interaction.

> Other things which are sorely missing is a possibilty of opening a
> document in a natural size instead of something scrunched and
> unreadable 

What would a naturual size be, how do you determine this?  We are working on a
Fit Text area mode: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171066  Also
Evince will eventually remember any setting you had applied to a document in
terms of size of window, zoom, and page number so when you reopen the document
it will look just as you left it.

> an easy way to randomly navigate between document
> pages.  If I have to switch to page number window, type there a page
> number without making mistakes and hit <enter> then in comparison with
> gv this is far from good enough.

Is something like space bar scrolling what you're looking for here?  We have an
upstream bug for that, which will be merged soon:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165120
Comment 2 Michal Jaegermann 2005-03-28 13:45:10 EST
> We have a reload button,

Misunderstanding.   I was talking about previer adjusting a display
"by itself" when an underlying file changed.  This is present not
only in the current gv-3.6.1 but also gv-3.5.8.  See there on
"State" menu.

> These I'm not sure about either what they are or why you need it:
> >  - Ability to override a default bounding box

A declared bounding box is not always the really desired one.  On
occasions is not even correct.  It is good if one does not have to
go with an editor to an underlying file if changes are neede.

> >  - Control over how documented is interpreted (EOF comments,
> >    structured comments)

PostScript has this nasty notion of "comments" which are sometimes
interpreted.  On occasions this can screw you badly.

> Control the automatic resizing?  Is this about choosing the right zoom level
> like I mention below?

evince always opens documents scrunched to fit some default window.
At least for now I do not see a way open a document in a preset magnification.

> 
> >  - Ability to override a paper size
> In printing?

In display too.  If I am printing on a paper of "other" size it is
good to know in advance how things possibly come out.

> >  - Ability to show enlarged _fragments_ of a document without
> >    affecting an overall magnification
> Interesting, how does this work

Start gv with some, preferably, text file and put a cursor on fragment
you would like to see in more detail.  Hit middle mouse button.  Pick
up desired "local magnification" with the first mouse button.  Observe
effects.

>  and what is it used for?

Sigh!  When you are working with a Postscript file, as opposed to looking
at a picture, possibly in some typesetting context but not only, then
you are often interested in minutiae details which are often not even
displayed due to approximations of a regular magnification.  Looking
on a screen really beats pouring with a magnifying glass over printouts
(and saves trees too).

> If the current default gs options are wrong

It is not that they are wrong per se. It happens sometimes that you
may want diffent ones.  No, not that often.


> Evince is
> designed for people to view documents easily

So far I would have a problem with guessing that.

> 
> What would a naturual size be, how do you determine this?

Zoom scale 1.0?

> > an easy way to randomly navigate between document
> 
> Is something like space bar scrolling what you're looking for here?

That would be nice too.  I had in mind rather picking a desired page
with one mouse click instead of first selecting a page number window,
then typing in it some page number, correcting mistakes and after
that hitting enter.  I do not mind typing but switching all the
time between a keyboard and a mouse is not that great.
Comment 3 Bryan W Clark 2005-04-02 11:28:41 EST
(In reply to comment #2)
> Misunderstanding.   I was talking about previer adjusting a display
> "by itself" when an underlying file changed.  This is present not
> only in the current gv-3.6.1 but also gv-3.5.8.  See there on
> "State" menu.

See the discussion in the bug I metioned, we're not going to do monitoring of
the underlying file.

> > These I'm not sure about either what they are or why you need it:
> > >  - Ability to override a default bounding box
> 
> A declared bounding box is not always the really desired one.  On
> occasions is not even correct.  It is good if one does not have to
> go with an editor to an underlying file if changes are neede.
> 
> > >  - Control over how documented is interpreted (EOF comments,
> > >    structured comments)
> 
> PostScript has this nasty notion of "comments" which are sometimes
> interpreted.  On occasions this can screw you badly.

I think we would attempt to figure out when you get screwed by these comments
and do the right thing in that instance.  You should file a bug about this with
a test document so it can be done right.

> > Control the automatic resizing?  Is this about choosing the right zoom level
> > like I mention below?
> 
> evince always opens documents scrunched to fit some default window.
> At least for now I do not see a way open a document in a preset magnification.

Eventually Evince will remember meta-data about the document you were viewing. 
Saving things like Last Page viewed, Zoom Level, and Window Size.

Remember Zoom Level:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168285

Remember Last Window Size:
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164772

> > 
> > >  - Ability to override a paper size
> > In printing?
> 
> In display too.  If I am printing on a paper of "other" size it is
> good to know in advance how things possibly come out.

Seems like a print preview thing.  I know we had some ideas about how to use the
document view to handle printing by modifying what you're looking at and
selecting the visible pages, then clicking print to get exactly what you're
seeing.  However without some help from other people printing is going to
continue to fall by the wayside.

> Sigh!  When you are working with a Postscript file, as opposed to looking
> at a picture, possibly in some typesetting context but not only, then
> you are often interested in minutiae details which are often not even
> displayed due to approximations of a regular magnification.  Looking
> on a screen really beats pouring with a magnifying glass over printouts
> (and saves trees too).

We have some ideas to do Zoom to selected area and give a way to go back in
zoom.  Perhaps this isn't going to be exactly what you want though.  But for
authoring Postscript files you should be using something else than Evince.  It's
not going to be the toolbox that gv was.  It might work out well for your needs,
but most likely you'll continue to want other things it won't have.

> > > an easy way to randomly navigate between document
> > 
> > Is something like space bar scrolling what you're looking for here?
> 
> That would be nice too.  I had in mind rather picking a desired page
> with one mouse click instead of first selecting a page number window,
> then typing in it some page number, correcting mistakes and after
> that hitting enter.  I do not mind typing but switching all the
> time between a keyboard and a mouse is not that great.

Ctrl-L is probably going to be used to access the page number area.  If you
wanted to stay keyboard only you'll press Ctrl-L and type the page number, then
Enter.  Just like a web browser works.
Comment 4 Michal Jaegermann 2005-04-02 11:43:07 EST
Why does "bumped out" showed up in a subject and what that is supposed to
mean?  A comparison is with a "bog standard" gv you can find, for example,
in FC3 which happens to be gv-3.5.8.  Yes, indeed a new gv-3.6.1 release
is available for some time but this is another issue.
Comment 5 Bryan W Clark 2005-04-02 12:15:37 EST
Um, that was you who titled this bug, so it's whatever you meant it to be.  I'll
retitle this to something more appropriate.  Also, since gv is in Extras you can
take responsibility over the packaging of it create a new build for the new version.
Comment 6 Michal Jaegermann 2005-04-02 12:33:59 EST
> Um, that was you who titled this bug,
Yes, indeed, you are right.  I have no idea what I was thinking.
> Also, since gv is in Extras
Well, sort of as for now.

I was specifically _asked_ to write this entry.
Comment 7 Marco Pesenti Gritti 2005-05-31 06:39:56 EDT
Ok, Bryan replied in detail to this. Please file separate bugs if there are
remaining issues that was not addressed by Bryan.

Marking as upstream because most of these bugs are worked on upstream, hard to
find an appropriate resolution for this...

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.