From Bugzilla Helper: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.7.12) Gecko/20050922 Fedora/1.0.7-1.1.fc4 Firefox/1.0.7 Description of problem: The Fedora Core 4 Installation is lacking detailed information for the commonly asked task of an HTTP Installation. This is an RFE to hopefully include the documentation I have generated. Here is the link to the procedure I have generated http://fedoraunity.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=31 Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): How reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1. None RFE for the Documentation Project - Intallation Guide 2. 3. Actual Results: N/A Expected Results: N/A Additional info: N/A
When you read the network installation section at: http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide-en/fc4/ch-other-install-methods.html ...what do you see missing that your document provides? As the FTP, HTTP, and NFS installation options all provide roughly identical dialogs (the FTP method has an extra section for authentication), there is not really any good reason to explain each one separately.
The issue as I see it is that if you give a new user the section on other install methods, will that user be able to complete an HTP/FTP/NFS install? I currently participate in the #fedora channel regularly and based on the number of requests for this information generated the procedure. The procedure I generated has led to several successful loads for Fedora Core. In the past we have pointed these users to the installation guide only to have them return and continue to ask for more detailed infromation. I would actually like to see each of the other installation methods expounded upon. I do agree that the standard install is covered very well in the installation guide but there is currently not enough detail in the other install methods for a basic user to successfully install a system using those procedures IMHO.
Scott, I think that part of the problem is really the structure of the IG. Almost all of the information is there, but there are several alternative routes and decision points in the installer, so the IG isn't totally sequential as your material is. We are missing information on how to decide the URL, which you've specified on your page (I've now added this to my TODO list). One idea that I had for Fedora 5 was to take the screenshots produced for the main IG and use them to create a slideshow/presentation that shows the sequence of screens for installing Fedora from CD (accepting the defaults), with minimal extra text. I hadn't thought about doing the same for other installation methods, but we could do this for HTTP. The first couple of sections of the IG could also do with being more clear, if we can find a way (also now on my TODO list).
Stuart, Keep in mind I am willing to help in anyway that I can. If you need me to run through each installation and do the screenshots, I can do that. I belive that your idea for Fedora 5 with the slideshow/presentation would be the correct direction to go. If you already have a format get it to me as I am getting ready to do a couple of installs here and would be willing to flesh out one for each type of installation. I can support doing the i386, x86_64, HTTP, NFS, and FTP, I have the the hardware and the servers to support doing this so that would not be an issue. Just let me know how I can help.
Working from a decision point idea, perhaps we could revise the IG to follow more of a process flow. "To install with X method, go to ____. To install with Y method, go to ____." The branching is not very pronounced, and everything flows back to a trunk afterward. I think this is probably not too hard to do -- Scott, Stuart, how does that ring to you? What I would like to see is for the community to *not* waste time creating alternate versions of official documentation, but rather help us fix what's there. In order to fix it, we need to know with a little specificity (if possible) what people are not finding. That helps us figure out how to fix it correctly. Taking two documents and trying to munge them together into something that works is rarely the most effective way to do that. That having been said, bugs like this are the way to make that stuff happen. I'll see if I can do some revision of this today so that DocsRawhide will have a copy for Scott's review.
Looking at this as I do (from the eyes of a new user), I think that would be very beneficial, so your idea makes very good sense. Also I do these alternate procedures for my own personal use, I try to document how I do everything to my systems so should I need to recover from an issue I have all the documentation on how it is configured and how I got the various issues encountered resolved. That is part of the reason I joined the docs project, so I could help make the docs more usable. Let me know when you get the revision done I will take a look once it is ready.
I think it's awesome you want to help make this doc better. I am working on it as we speak and you will be able to see the changes shortly... I'll drop you an email off BZ as soon as I have something, in case you're not watching the fedora-docs-commits mailing list.
Scott: Thanks. Once test1 is out I plan to complete a list of changes/tasks, and post that to the docs list. One is (inevitably) going to be redoing the screenshots. Another is testing alternative installation cases (e.g. installing on a 64-bit system) to find any missing info - the current text was only tested against 32-bit Intel. Paul: I think that the beginning of the IG is tangled because anaconda allows for any combination of boot device and installation source, so you can boot from pen drive and then install from CD if you really wanted to... As you say, it then straightens out, although when it hits partitioning it loses the "Next > Next > Next" quality for a couple of sections as there are a number of alternative scenarios there as well. The only solution that I could think of was to yank the "Other Installation Methods" section out of the main text and make it an Appendix.
Stuart, absolutely right about the IG. It's a difficult proposition but I am doing a bit of rearranging right now to hopefully make it a little clearer. Will do some CVS commits so you can see the progress. I'll let you know via this bug when I'm finished taking my best shot.
Update: Paul has reorganized the first chapter of the IG to look a lot better, and I've edited the text in a couple of places to hopefully make network installation easier to understand: http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide/en/sn-before-begin.html#sn-installing-networkinstallation http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/fedora-install-guide/en/ch-other-install-methods.html#sn-install-method-server
I have updated my reference link here for the how-to. Here is the updated link http://fedorasolved.org/installation_solutions/fedora_core_4_network_installation_guide.html Those are a good start, but it still seems lacking in information. A new user who has little or now experience in linux would still get lost and frustrated trying to follow that installation guide imho.
Scott, more detailed information would be helpful. What part do you think gets confusing? What do you think the new user needs to know that we haven't covered? Can you make some specific suggestions for what changes you would like to see?
(In reply to comment #12) > Scott, more detailed information would be helpful. What part do you think gets > confusing? What do you think the new user needs to know that we haven't > covered? Can you make some specific suggestions for what changes you would like > to see? Paul: As I stated in comment #6, I look at it as a "new user", the way I do that is I hand the procedure to my wife who has just installed FC in the past couple of weeks. If she can complete the task with little or no assistance from me the procedure provides enough detail and content. I have shown her the updated section and she states that the document still does not have enough information to complete a Network Installation based on the current updates. Yes the docs cover the basic idea of the various types of installation, but do not include enough detail for a user with little or not experience with FC to complete the given task such as an FTP/HTTP install. The sample that I point to is http://fedorasolved.org/installation_solutions/fedora_core_4_network_installation_guide.html I have even found that my post was still lacking some information so I updated it. In the update post I have covered everything from Downloading the ISO image, buring the image properly to a disk, booting the media, commencing the install process. That is an example I can hand to just about anybody that can turn on a computer and the can complete an HTTP install. Is it perfect no, however it contains all the information needed to complete the required task.
Paul/Stuart Now that I have the CVS source document imported I will work on the Installation Guide the correct way. As requested I have put what I am working up on a private server for the purpose of tracking progress, here is the link: http://70.174.58.25:8080/ig/fedora-install-guide-en/
I cant find the document in the above location. whats the progress on this?
Rahul, Currently due to work-load it has been placed on hold. As time permits I will continue to work on preparing it for FC6.
Reassign to new default owner.
The workflow has been changed quite a bit in the new F7 IG. I am clearing this bug since I have no new information from the OP. Discussion is very welcome on the fedora-docs-list pursuant to the new work in CVS.