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Bug 1893428

Summary: netinstall image requirement for using kickstart could be made clearer
Product: [Retired] Fedora Documentation Reporter: glaebhoerl
Component: install-guideAssignee: Petr Bokoc <pbokoc>
Status: CLOSED RAWHIDE QA Contact: Fedora Docs QA <docs-qa>
Severity: low Docs Contact:
Priority: unspecified    
Version: develCC: pbokoc, sjalgaon, vslavik, zach
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Last Closed: 2021-06-21 08:39:31 UTC Type: Bug
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Description glaebhoerl 2020-10-31 11:04:27 UTC
Based on the https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f33/install-guide/advanced/Kickstart_Installations/ page, I attempted to add an inst.ks= boot option to my Fedora Workstation installation image (after copying its contents to a FAT32 filesystem). This resulted, when beginning the installation, in the message:

"Kickstart is not supported on live installs. This installation will continue interactively."

Googling for this message found single-digit hits, almost all of which were for the several-years-old commit which originally added the message.

It was very unclear to me what I should have been doing instead, and spent most of a day fruitlessly googling to try to find out. Every page only ever said that I needed to add a boot option to the kernel command line of the installer (which is what I believed myself to be doing), and went from there. The root of the issue is that it was not apparent to me what the alternative to a "live install" was, or how to activate it. (Maybe I needed to pass different boot options so that it would boot directly into the installer?? I spent a while trying different ways to achieve this.)

"Kickstart is not supported on live installs" may have been sufficient information back in the day when live and non-live installation images were provided side by side, but these days, at least for the Workstation version, live is the only download option prominently visible, and it is not even called out as being such.

Finally, after trying the twentieth combination of search terms, I found that the page https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f33/install-guide/install/Preparing_for_Installation/ mentions that "Kickstart installation requires the netinstall media type, or a direct installation booting method such as PXE; kickstarts are not supported with live images". I admit that if I had read all of the instructions linearly from beginning to end, then I would probably not have had this problem.

Nonetheless, I humbly suggest that if the "Automating the Installation with Kickstart" page also made some mention of this requirement, it would be a helpful thing. In addition, it might be helpful to extend the "kickstart is not supported on live installs" error message with some mention of the suggested alternatives as well.

Thank you for your work and attention.

Comment 1 Vladimír Slávik 2020-11-13 15:11:28 UTC
Hi glaebhoerl, thanks for the report! How about changing the popup itself to tell you what to do? This is there now:

> "Kickstart is not supported on live installs.  This installation will continue interactively.  Use kickstart with Server or IoT images."

Maybe let's add this to the text?

> " Use kickstart with Server, IoT, or other non-Live images."

You can even propose such a change yourself, the place to modify the text is right here:
https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/blob/master/data/liveinst/liveinst#L115

Comment 2 Vladimír Slávik 2020-11-13 15:20:32 UTC
Eh, I copied the changed line both times, but never mind, the question stands :)

Comment 3 glaebhoerl 2020-11-18 12:34:41 UTC
That'd be a definite improvement. I don't think the actual download pages even mention which ones are Live vs. non-Live, though? I guess "ISO" vs. "Installer ISO" is supposed to indicate the difference? But the server page https://getfedora.org/en/server/download/ just says "Standard ISO" and "Netinstall ISO", and from your comment I'm inferring that presumably *both* of these would work?

Is there any image other than Workstation that /is/ Live? If not, perhaps it'd be clearer to just call out that one in particular as the one to avoid. (Of course, this runs the risk of becoming inaccurate with time if the situation evolves.)

Especially if things are more complex than that, it does seem like there ought to be a list/table of which images are of which nature *somewhere*, whether in the error popup (probably not the right place), the docs, or the download pages.

I also still believe it'd be helpful to clarify the concept of "boot media" on the "Automating the Installation with Kickstart" page as well, which could've saved me from going down the wrong path in the first place. (The page gives the appearance of being *the* page for information about kickstart installations; when e.g. found via google, it is completely non-obvious that the "Preparing for Installation" page from the previous group in the docs should also be consulted.)

Comment 4 Vladimír Slávik 2021-05-18 17:30:51 UTC
Sorry glaebhoerl, this fell through the cracks in my life. But I did find it again, so it's not hopeless!

> just says "Standard ISO" and "Netinstall ISO", and from your comment I'm inferring that presumably *both* of these would work?
Yes.

> Is there any image other than Workstation that /is/ Live?
Certainly. The other desktop spins do this, see https://openqa.fedoraproject.org/nightlies.html and search for live. Anyone building a distro from Fedora can have that.

The general pattern is: Kickstart is supported if an image boots straight to installer, with no pretty desktop to try out.

Technically, the actual difference is if Anaconda is started with the "liveinst" script. That script will give you the error message and discard the kickstart parameter.

Given that multiple editions / spins / variants / whatever can make live media that show this message, I'm no longer sure if changing the message is the best idea. But I've opened a PR just in case, https://github.com/rhinstaller/anaconda/pull/3387

Comment 5 Vladimír Slávik 2021-05-18 17:34:44 UTC
Petr, can you please check if anything can be done about this? I'm thinking the numbered list here could add also that the media is not Live:

https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora/f34/install-guide/advanced/Kickstart_Installations/

I am not sure how far back you want to edit the docs, but I'd go for f34 and f33 too.

Comment 6 Petr Bokoc 2021-05-24 10:31:18 UTC
Hi! Sure, no problem. I added a mention to point 2 of the numbered list in the link from c#5 on branches master (Rawhide), f34, and f33.

Comment 7 Vladimír Slávik 2021-05-31 12:27:46 UTC
...I think this can be closed?

Comment 8 glaebhoerl 2021-06-14 10:25:43 UTC
Fine by me. Thanks for making the changes!

Comment 9 Vladimír Slávik 2021-06-21 08:39:31 UTC
Anaconda PR with better message merged, docs done for a few weeks already... I think we're done!