Created attachment 1750736 [details] f34-falkon-vs-firefox.png The attached screenshot from an unmodified, out of the box Fedora-KDE-Live-x86_64-Rawhide-20210124.n.0.iso says it all. Given that Falkon is actually the more standards-conforming browser (see screenshot), what rationale is there for defaulting to the non-KDE browser? Why did I have to dig up the more standards-conforming, official KDE browser from the menu whereas the less standards-conforming, non-KDE browser is offered as a shortcut in the task bar?
Spoiler: HTML5test – How well does your browser support HTML5? – Falkon [https://html5test.com/] YOUR BROWSER SCORES 519 OUT OF 555 POINTS You are using Falkon 3.1.0 on Linux HTML5test – How well does your browser support HTML5? – Firefox [https://html5test.com] YOUR BROWSER SCORES 506 OUT OF 555 POINTS You are using Firefox 84.0 on Fedora
This bug appears to have been reported against 'rawhide' during the Fedora 34 development cycle. Changing version to 34.
We are never going to get critical showstopper bugs such as bug 2001261 accepted as blockers (as opposed to only freeze exceptions that may or may not get fixed in time – thankfully, this time, the fix is already queued) unless there is a clear statement by the KDE SIG that Falkon is the default browser, and ideally Firefox gets kicked out of the KDE/Plasma Spin altogether (or at least the preference order is set such that Falkon is the default, which is currently not the case). This hurts the KDE/Plasma Spin as a whole because QtWebEngine is also used by other KDE applications such as KMail.
This bug appears to have been reported against 'rawhide' during the Fedora 36 development cycle. Changing version to 36.
This bug appears to have been reported against 'rawhide' during the Fedora Linux 38 development cycle. Changing version to 38.
This is unrealistic. KDE developers comment Falkon is not in the best shape, even suggest Konqueror is better right now ( I myself consider this the only browser to really fit into KDE "theming" Regardless, the kde-sig is not going to replace Firefox with Falkon.
If you think Konqueror is in a better shape, then make Konqueror the default (defaulting to the KWebEnginePart, of course). But Firefox does not make sense as the default browser on a KDE Spin. The KDE SIG keeps coming up with new excuses to not default to a KDE browser: * First it was that KHTML was outdated. KDE came up with KWebKitPart and also with pure QtWebKit browsers such as Rekonq. Still nothing happened in Fedora. * Then it was that QtWebKit was also outdated. Then the QupZilla QtWebEngine port (which is now Falkon) came out. I have been maintaining QupZilla/Falkon since then, and it was pretty clear from the outstart that that browser fulfilled every criterion previously demanded by the KDE SIG. It was still not good enough for the KDE SIG. In fact: * The next excuse was that the new QupZilla was not officially released. * Then that the release was too new. * Then that the rename to Falkon was imminent and that we should not confuse users with a rename of the default browser, so let's wait for Falkon. * Then that Falkon was too new (no kidding). * Now you come up with "KDE developers comment Falkon is not in the best shape" as the latest excuse. * Other excuses in the past, at least for KHTML and QtWebKit, were that not enough websites are compatible with it. But QtWebEngine is actually compatible with MORE websites than Firefox! I am really fed up of this bullsh*t. I do not understand why Fedora KDE keeps shipping a non-KDE browser, and the KDE SIG keeps piling up excuse after excuse for it. It is the application many users will probably use the most, and there is a native KDE application available, so I see no justification for shipping a foreign one. Shipping a non-KDE application makes sense for niche applications which have no KDE equivalent, but surely not for the web browser.
> I am really fed up of this bullsh*t. Please, show some respect. I will kindly point you to follow Fedora's Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ At this point, your comments are unnacceptable: * Initiating controversy for controversy’s sake (repeatedly asking disingenuous questions under a guise of sincerity) * Saying insulting/derogatory comments and making personal attacks. * Repeatedly instigating conflict, and baiting people into arguments * Excessive swearing
You are the one personally accusing me of dishonesty ("repeatedly asking disingenuous questions under a guise of sincerity"). My questions are sincere, I really do not understand why Falkon or Konqueror keep not being good enough for the KDE SIG for always new reasons. Each time one reason is no longer valid, a new one comes up, so I am asking why. "Excessive swearing", LOL, I used ONE swear word, and censored even. It is not directed against a person, project or even company. I am sorry, but it looks to me like you do not know how to reply to the content of the post, so you attack the form instead.
I also do not see what is "unrealistic" about expecting a KDE Spin to default to a KDE browser.
Also consider that, at the time the decision for Firefox was made, Firefox had a sizable market share and the brand recognition that goes with it, which the KDE browsers did not have. Nowadays, Firefox is about to fade into irrelevance: https://www.brycewray.com/posts/2023/11/firefox-brink/ with a market share around 2%, and dropping below that will accelerate the decline. Falkon or Konqueror, being built on QtWebEngine, actually use the Chromium engine, which has 25 to 30 times the market share of Firefox. So the numbers are reversed now. Can the decision to ship a non-KDE browser as the default PLEASE be revisited for Fedora 40, or whenever a Qt-6-based Falkon and/or Konqueror makes the release? (I understand that the Qt5WebEngine is aging and increasingly has issues with several websites. Moving to Qt 6 fixes that.)
More about Firefox obsolescence: https://lunduke.locals.com/post/5053290/mozilla-2023-annual-report-ceo-pay-skyrockets-while-firefox-marketshare-nosedives Whereas Falkon is already Qt-6-based in Rawhide, which means it is again on a recent Chromium and hence compatible with more websites than Firefox.
Reopening to get this decision revisited for Fedora 40, given the above new facts.
This bug appears to have been reported against 'rawhide' during the Fedora Linux 40 development cycle. Changing version to 40.
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