Bug 807068 - [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font
[ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tam...
Status: CLOSED ERRATA
Product: Fedora
Classification: Fedora
Component: lohit-tamil-fonts (Show other bugs)
16
Unspecified Unspecified
unspecified Severity unspecified
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Assigned To: Pravin Satpute
Fedora Extras Quality Assurance
: i18n
Depends On:
Blocks:
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2012-03-26 18:17 EDT by Shriramana Sharma
Modified: 2012-08-09 19:22 EDT (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Fixed In Version:
Doc Type: Bug Fix
Doc Text:
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Clone Of:
Environment:
Last Closed: 2012-06-14 08:04:51 EDT
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Attachments (Terms of Use)
TTF of replacement glyphs and attestations for the same (17.08 KB, application/zip)
2012-03-26 18:17 EDT, Shriramana Sharma
no flags Details
Further minor updates to glyphs of zero and five (4.60 KB, application/x-font-ttf)
2012-06-06 01:25 EDT, Shriramana Sharma
no flags Details
TTF of replacement glyph for Tamil Rupee Sign and attestations for the same (17.07 KB, application/zip)
2012-06-08 13:20 EDT, Shriramana Sharma
no flags Details

  None (edit)
Description Shriramana Sharma 2012-03-26 18:17:12 EDT
Created attachment 572886 [details]
TTF of replacement glyphs and attestations for the same

Description of problem:

The Tamil digits in the Lohit Tamil font are not true to the actual printed glyphs and hence do not look so good even though the rest of the Lohit Tamil font is OTOH exceptionally of good quality.

The glyph of one Tamil symbol 0BF6 TAMIL DEBIT SIGN is also not true to the printed glyphs.

Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):

2.5.0

How reproducible:

Using Lohit Tamil font, compare glyphs to existing printed glyphs.
  
Actual results:

The relative proportions, shapes and lengths of the strokes in some of the glyphs are not according to the actual usage in printing. Some changes were subtle, some were very obvious.

Expected results:

For maintaining high quality, the above problem should be fixed.

Additional info:

I have attached a small font with the replacement glyphs. Mostly they are:

1) glyphs copied from elsewhere in the font or another Lohit font (for zero)
2) existing glyphs with positioning of some nodes slightly modified

If above not possible, only then I have changed the number of nodes. 

I have also provided the attestations from printed books. Especially please note that the Tamil zero should be perfectly circular, and the 0BF6 TAMIL DEBIT SIGN should be derived from Tamil PA ப. [In the Unicode chart, the glyph of 0BF6 is wrong and I have asked them to correct it.]

Please make sure to autohint the glyphs as due to change in number of points the original hinting information might have been lost. Sorry for that.
Comment 1 Pravin Satpute 2012-05-11 03:52:08 EDT
done changes, please check http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/Lohit-Tamil.ttf and give me your comments. 

Yeah, we are loosing hinting instructions but its fine. We have enabled autohinting for Tamil in Fedora.

After your comments will commit it to upstream and will do release. 

Note: I have not done changes waiting for Unicode in Lohit Tamil, once Unicode will change it we can update same.

Done that change in Classical font.
Comment 2 Shriramana Sharma 2012-05-15 08:31:41 EDT
(In reply to comment #1)
> Yeah, we are loosing hinting instructions but its fine. We have enabled
> autohinting for Tamil in Fedora.

Hm, but it would be good if you could tell FontForge to autohint the glyphs because non-Fedora distributions are also using the Lohit fonts. Frankly, I'm also using the Lohit fonts when I boot up into Windows XP! So I would prefer the hinting to *not* be distro-dependent.

> After your comments will commit it to upstream and will do release. 

Now I have checked whether all the requested changes are done and I observe that the glyph for TAMIL NUMBER ONE THOUSAND is as yet unchanged in both Tamil normal and Tamil Classical fonts. Please see the relevant glyph in attachment #572886 [details].

Next, I also note that the glyphs for ONE HUNDRED and ONE THOUSAND have moved somewhat downwards in both fonts. Please correct them to their original positions.

> Note: I have not done changes waiting for Unicode in Lohit Tamil, once Unicode
> will change it we can update same.

Do you want me to file a separate bug for the one symbol pending UTC editorial approval?
Comment 3 Pravin Satpute 2012-05-29 04:39:13 EDT
(In reply to comment #2)
> (In reply to comment #1)
> > Yeah, we are loosing hinting instructions but its fine. We have enabled
> > autohinting for Tamil in Fedora.
> 
> Hm, but it would be good if you could tell FontForge to autohint the glyphs
> because non-Fedora distributions are also using the Lohit fonts. Frankly,
> I'm also using the Lohit fonts when I boot up into Windows XP! So I would
> prefer the hinting to *not* be distro-dependent.

autohinting does not work well for Indian scripts, so i am bit reluctant to do it.

But lets add it for newly added characters better to have something rather than nothing.

> 
> > After your comments will commit it to upstream and will do release. 
> 
> Now I have checked whether all the requested changes are done and I observe
> that the glyph for TAMIL NUMBER ONE THOUSAND is as yet unchanged in both
> Tamil normal and Tamil Classical fonts. Please see the relevant glyph in
> attachment #572886 [details].

Can you now check it in svn? 
https://fedorahosted.org/lohit/browser/trunk/tamil

> 
> Next, I also note that the glyphs for ONE HUNDRED and ONE THOUSAND have
> moved somewhat downwards in both fonts. Please correct them to their
> original positions.

My bad, while observing support image i thought its little bit below than other numerals.

corrected it now.

> 
> > Note: I have not done changes waiting for Unicode in Lohit Tamil, once Unicode
> > will change it we can update same.
> 
> Do you want me to file a separate bug for the one symbol pending UTC
> editorial approval?

Yes, new bug will help to keep track.
Comment 4 Shriramana Sharma 2012-05-29 08:18:42 EDT
(In reply to comment #3)
> autohinting does not work well for Indian scripts, so i am bit reluctant to
> do it.
> But lets add it for newly added characters better to have something rather
> than nothing.

OK thanks.

> > Now I have checked whether all the requested changes are done and I observe
> > that the glyph for TAMIL NUMBER ONE THOUSAND is as yet unchanged in both
> > Tamil normal and Tamil Classical fonts. Please see the relevant glyph in
> > attachment #572886 [details].
> 
> Can you now check it in svn? 
> https://fedorahosted.org/lohit/browser/trunk/tamil

Yes now the new corrected glyphs are applied. Thank you.

> > Do you want me to file a separate bug for the one symbol pending UTC
> > editorial approval?
> 
> Yes, new bug will help to keep track.

Reported bug #826026. You can close this bug once the replacement for the numerals glyphs alone has been released.
Comment 5 Shriramana Sharma 2012-06-06 01:25:23 EDT
Created attachment 589720 [details]
Further minor updates to glyphs of zero and five

Please find attached further fine-tune updates for the glyphs of Tamil digits zero and five. Please update trunk version of Lohit Tamil and Tamil Classical using these two glyphs before closing this bug. Thank you.
Comment 6 Fedora Update System 2012-06-06 08:16:04 EDT
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc17 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 17.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc17
Comment 7 Fedora Update System 2012-06-06 08:34:05 EDT
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc16 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 16.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc16
Comment 8 Pravin Satpute 2012-06-06 08:40:24 EDT
(In reply to comment #5)
> Created attachment 589720 [details]
> Further minor updates to glyphs of zero and five
> 
> Please find attached further fine-tune updates for the glyphs of Tamil
> digits zero and five. Please update trunk version of Lohit Tamil and Tamil
> Classical using these two glyphs before closing this bug. Thank you.

This fix will be available with next build. trunk is updated though.
Comment 9 Shriramana Sharma 2012-06-08 13:20:31 EDT
Created attachment 590473 [details]
TTF of replacement glyph for Tamil Rupee Sign and attestations for the same

Hello Pravin. I wonder if instead of the glyph for debit sign, you can replace the glyph of rupee sign which would look better and more in line with the (the Unicode code chart and) attested shapes from scholarly works if replaced by the attached glyph.

The attestations are from:

A Handbook of the Tamil Language, G U Pope, 1855
A Comprehensive Tamil and English Dictionary, M Winslow, Madras, 1962

Can you do this under this bug itself (its summary still says "one Tamil symbol" despite debit sign going to a different bug) as it is not yet closed? Or should I submit a separate bug?
Comment 10 Pravin Satpute 2012-06-13 02:34:03 EDT
Thought our shape is not exactly matching with one provided by Unicode but definitely yours designed is better than existing :)

Done the changes in git, Thank you !!

In between with the introduction of new Indian Rupee Symbol ₹, what is effect on uses of Tamil Rupee Symbol?
Comment 11 Pravin Satpute 2012-06-14 08:04:51 EDT
Closing, all the patches are committed in upstream.
Comment 12 Fedora Update System 2012-06-19 05:55:39 EDT
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-2.fc17 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 17.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-2.fc17
Comment 13 Fedora Update System 2012-07-17 13:29:29 EDT
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc16 has been pushed to the Fedora 16 stable repository.  If problems still persist, please make note of it in this bug report.
Comment 14 Fedora Update System 2012-08-09 19:22:04 EDT
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-2.fc17 has been pushed to the Fedora 17 stable repository.  If problems still persist, please make note of it in this bug report.

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