Red Hat Bugzilla – Full Text Bug Listing
|Summary:||[ml_IN] Malayalam fonts rendered incorrectly|
|Product:||[Fedora] Fedora||Reporter:||Manilal <libregeek>|
|Component:||pango||Assignee:||Behdad Esfahbod <behdad>|
|Status:||CLOSED NEXTRELEASE||QA Contact:|
|Version:||9||CC:||apeter, b.rahul.pm, evuraan, hiran.v, i18n-bugs, petersen, pnemade, pravi.a, rajeeshknambiar|
|Fixed In Version:||Doc Type:||Bug Fix|
|Doc Text:||Story Points:||---|
|Last Closed:||2009-05-08 07:19:52 EDT||Type:||---|
|oVirt Team:||---||RHEL 7.3 requirements from Atomic Host:|
|Bug Depends On:|
|Bug Blocks:||126002, 235705|
Description Manilal 2007-06-01 05:53:11 EDT
Description of problem: The malayalam fonts rendered wrongly in mozilla firefox. This occurs for Chillu and some koottaksharams like "nte". There are also issues when rendering ya(യ)+chandrakala(്)+va (വ) and some other similar characters. I have attached a screenshot which indicates the issues. Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): Fedora Core 6 pango-1.14.10-1.fc6 firefox-188.8.131.52-1.fc6 fonts-malayalam-2.1.5-1.fc6 How reproducible: Always Steps to Reproduce: 1.Visit the page http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%86%E0%B4%A8 or http://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/ in firefox 2. 3. Actual results: Refer the attachment Expected results: Additional info:
Comment 1 Manilal 2007-06-01 05:53:11 EDT
Created attachment 155867 [details] Screenshot of malaylam page in firefox
Comment 2 A S Alam 2007-06-01 06:07:49 EDT
have you same problem in konqueror and gedit?
Comment 3 Manilal 2007-06-01 06:32:22 EDT
Created attachment 155868 [details] Screenshot of malayalam page in Konqueror and Gedit
Comment 4 Manilal 2007-06-01 06:34:41 EDT
When compared with konqueror, firefox has less errors. But it's interesting to see that chillu errors are solved in konqueror but there are lots of koottaksharam errors.
Comment 5 A S Alam 2007-06-01 06:39:31 EDT
ok, so can you please open another bug for qt (rendering) for koottaksharam?
Comment 6 A S Alam 2007-06-01 06:41:17 EDT
and yes, are you please add unicode for those combinations like 0d0c + od4d+???? you can use Malayalam Unicode chart from: http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0D00.pdf
Comment 7 Manilal 2007-06-01 07:06:58 EDT
I am not an expert in unicode and has less knowledge about how the glyphs are stored. However I will try to get help from some experts about this issue.
Comment 8 Praveen A 2007-06-01 08:02:00 EDT
Lets look at the issues one by one. 1) Not rendering chillu properly This has got to do with wrong input and not a problem with rendering Earlier pango used to render consonent+chandrakala without ZWJ as chillu now when it is corrected text entered earlier has also need to be corrected. ള+്+ZWJ - ള് 2) കീഴ്വഴക്കള് is due to a wrong sequence selected in Microsoft Open Type specification It can be fixed using suruma patch for pango ( http://suruma.sarovar.org ) and a font modified to work with it. 3) ഉള്പ്പെടുന്ന This is bug in pango that need to be fixed http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=441654 For now it can be worked around by adding a ZWNJ after ള് ള+്+ZWJ+ZWNJ+പ+്+പ 4) ണു് samvruthokaram is not yet supported. I guess it has to be supported at font level. 5) പ്രത്യേകത refer 3 6) ന്രോ the problem is bug introduced by Fedora developers to fix rendering of lohit_ml new lipi font by adding an exception and which broke the traditional lipi rendering. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=357790 It could be solved by including popular traditional lipi fonts like Rachana and Anjali to Fedora Most of the issues except for 3 can be solved by using suruma patched pango.
Comment 9 Manilal 2007-06-01 08:09:32 EDT
I have some more screenshots using the rachana and anjali fonts. The anjali seems to have less errors in firefox. The anjali fonts can be downloaded from : https://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=4730 http://varamozhi.wikia.com/wiki/Varamozhi
Comment 10 Manilal 2007-06-01 08:14:51 EDT
Created attachment 155873 [details] Screenshots of firefox and konqueror using Rachana and Anjali
Comment 11 Liang Zhang 2007-09-28 04:25:38 EDT
The upstream bug: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=481198
Comment 12 Parag Nemade 2007-11-14 07:33:31 EST
*** Bug 379431 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 13 Parag Nemade 2007-11-14 07:46:15 EST
*** Bug 382121 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 14 Jens Petersen 2007-11-14 21:53:26 EST
LingNing, can you take a look at this, please?
Comment 15 Liang Zhang 2007-11-15 03:03:06 EST
Jens, ok, I will look at it.
Comment 16 Manilal 2007-11-21 02:28:47 EST
I have tested a suruma patch for pango (http://suruma.sarovar.org/patch4pango-1.16.4.tar.bz2) in Fedora 8 with lohit-malayalam fonts and Rachana_g02 fonts. There are considerable issues when using lohit-fonts even with suruma patch. Please compare the two screenshots attached.
Comment 17 Manilal 2007-11-21 02:29:58 EST
Created attachment 265721 [details] Malayalam in firefox using suruma-pango-patch and lohit-malayalam font
Comment 18 Manilal 2007-11-21 02:30:30 EST
Created attachment 265731 [details] Malayalam in firefox using suruma-pango-patch and Rachana-g02 font
Comment 19 Rahul Bhalerao 2007-11-26 05:36:48 EST
I have discussed the problems with Ani and tend to agree with most of the points made by Pravin in Comment #8. 1. Chillu rendering: It used to work in fedora even with ZWJ. There seems to be some changes in Pango that has broke the rendering. Chillu problems are also being addressed in Unicode 5.1 .0. Thus we have to wait for the final verdict on that. 2. ഴ + ് + വ: This is rendered wrong since this is a special case where post base Va is not used. With most other consonants we need to have post base form of Va. This can be hanlded in the font, without changing the post base flag of Va in Pango. 3. ഉള്പ്പെടുന്ന: This problem exists due to some reorderings done by pango which may be neccessary in the rendering of chillu characters. For time being (and may be even forever) we can use ZWNJ as suggested by Pravin. This is already being used in the gnome and fedora translations. 4. ണു് : This cannot be supported in font since pango will not allow use of halant after vowel. 5. consonant + ് + യ + ക: This is most probably a font issue and can be solved. Ideally font should have pstf flag for half ya and so should be in the pango. Additionally I see one 'akhn' combination of ka and ya which may be affecting this. 6. ന്രോ: This issue is still under discussion. This will be done in both font and pango. Suruma pathes and Rachana font supports only old lipi in this case. We are working on a dual solution where both old and new lipi will be supoprted.
Comment 20 Praveen A 2007-12-16 19:03:32 EST
1. Chillu Rendering: Whatever be the outcome of Unicode 5.1 we need to support data which is already using ZWJ for chillu. I broke it in Pango by mistake when I reverted your changes (ZWJ is ignored now which should not be the case). We should be able to incorporate this back when we propose a patch to solve all the existing issues. Even now if you can add this back, I can support the patch saying it was my mistake in the first place to have removed that flag. 3. I would rather fix the issue than use ZWNJ in this case. My earlier comment to use ZWNJ was before seeing icu handling this correctly. Also it is not the correct way to use wrong encoding to work around rendering bugs. 4. This has to be supported in pango and suruma patch gives a solution to this. If you can review it and if you like it we can submit it upstream (we don't want to cut our language to fit the rendering engine anymore - and windows renders this correctly). 5. I don't understand the requirement for supporting the typewriter script anymore. Can you suggest any logical reasons to continue with typewriter script now that the technology can handle the tradition script without needing to cutting down the script? This is a language and cultural issue rather than a technical issue. If you look around the Malayalam users you can see everyone following the traditional script. Rendering is such a fundamental requirement to have a localized system and we have been sitting on this for a long time even with a solution to most of these problems already. We have to address this quickly. Even while we debate on the typewriter/traditional script issue we can push patch for adding back ZWJ processing and samvruthokaram that does not affect the script difference.
Comment 21 Rahul Bhalerao 2007-12-17 02:40:12 EST
Its possible to support both ZWJ and unicode 5.1. We will have to include the chillu glyphs at the designated code points and apply GSUB on the same glyph in such a way that it can be produced as a combination with ZWJ as well. Please correct the ZWJ mistake, I will certainly support that and also the samvruthokaram patch looks ok.
Comment 22 Praveen A 2007-12-21 01:58:19 EST
Rahul, Manilal, I have submitted the patch to render chillus and samvruthokaram upstream. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504810 Please add your comments there and support it.
Comment 23 Praveen A 2007-12-21 02:17:04 EST
Rahul, Lets stop fighting over typewriter script and traditional script. Lets find a way that is agreeable to both of us and that will solve most important rendering issues we have now. AFAIK, you don't agree with suruma patch because it does not render conjuncts with ra like പ്ര (pra) in typewriter script. We don't agree with you changing the order in pango for making this work in typewriter script while breaking traditional script. Can we find a middle way in which suruma patch can render 'pra' correctly in typewriter script as well? I remember you mentioning a way to do it by changing fonts so that both scripts work. Can you get us that?
Comment 24 Praveen A 2007-12-21 03:01:10 EST
Samvruthokaram patch for icu. Please comment here too. http://bugs.icu-project.org/trac/ticket/6108
Comment 25 Manilal 2007-12-21 03:18:13 EST
Good work Praveen. I will surely test it.
Comment 26 Praveen A 2007-12-24 00:08:53 EST
Manilal, Rahul, Please test the Open Office Version from http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/smc/fedora/8/smc.repo and see if any of the issues still remain. We still need some more fixes to perfect pango rendering but Open Office is perfect with all known issues resolved. Suresh is working on a way to solve the issue with typewriter script, he has already solved it for qt. I will post it here after testing it.
Comment 27 Manilal 2007-12-24 00:18:52 EST
Praveen, I am having some issues with the Fedora desktop at my office. I will fix it today and test the patch ASAP.
Comment 28 Manilal 2007-12-24 05:36:26 EST
I have installed the pango and libicu patch from smc repository in Fedora 8. I think there are still issues. However I tested it with lohit-malayalam-fonts. I'm not sure whether I need to test it with any other fonts. I have included the screenshots of firefox and openoffice, before and after applying the updated packages from smc. Please let me know if I need to consider any other test cases. I am using Xen virtual guest, so that I need not worry about any package corruption.
Comment 29 Manilal 2007-12-24 05:38:43 EST
Created attachment 290346 [details] Screenshots of openoffice and firefox using tha updates from smc
Comment 30 Praveen A 2007-12-26 03:51:06 EST
No, it won't work with Lohit fonts without modification. Test with Rachana_g02 and MalOtf.ttf (from http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/t/ttf-indic-fonts/ttf-indic-fonts_0.5.0.tar.gz)
Comment 31 Manilal 2007-12-26 06:01:51 EST
I have tested Openoffice.org and Firefox with ttf-indic-fonts and also Rachana_g02. It seems that different fonts has different isues. I have attached a detailed list of screenshots of various fonts.
Comment 32 Manilal 2007-12-26 06:03:56 EST
Created attachment 290403 [details] Screenshots of openoffice and firefox using updates from smc
Comment 33 Praveen A 2007-12-30 04:36:33 EST
First of all thanks for testing it. How did you create the tar ball? It does not open normally, you have gzipped it twice, so first you have to run gunzip, change the .tar file to .tar.gz and then do a tar -zxvf Firstly, the fonts which you have tested are different 1) Rachana_w01 is designed to work with Microsoft Uniscribe rendering engine and it will not render correctly in pango or icu. 2) To fix the rendering issues Suresh developed patches for pango and icu called suruma and required changes in fonts also, which means these becomes incompatible with Uniscribe/Windows and does not work well for typewriter script (conjuncts of ra). These are marked g01 3) Rahul Bhalerao has made changes to icu and pango to make Lohit render correctly which breaks Rachana and other traditional scripts 4) Now Suresh has made the fonts compatible with with both suruma and uniscribe, these are the g02 fonts. He has fixed the MalOtf to render correctly with suruma patch (I should have given this font instead of the one from debian package - I have attached the fixed MalOtf) So for fixing all the rendering problems you have to follow these steps a) update the icu and pango packages to the latest version in smc repository b) Install Rachana_g02 and MalOtf (both attached here). Now if Lohit follow the scheme of MalOtf then it will work with suruma patch. Once we have both the traditional and typewriter scripts work correctly with suruma patch, I think Rahul will agree to push these upstream.
Comment 34 Praveen A 2007-12-30 04:38:06 EST
Created attachment 290545 [details] MalOtf made to work with suruma patch
Comment 36 Manilal 2007-12-31 02:43:50 EST
Praveen, Sorry, I was in a hurry and created the tarball using the Archive Manager and not sure how it gone bad.. Anyway I will attach a new file. I will test it tomorrow morning and post the results.
Comment 37 Manilal 2007-12-31 02:45:02 EST
Created attachment 290569 [details] Screenshots of openoffice and firefox using updates from smc
Comment 38 Manilal 2008-01-02 05:40:19 EST
Thanks Praveen and Suresh for your efforts. I have tested the updated packages from SMC repository with Mal0tf and rachana_g02 fonts in Fedora 8 and it works fine. However I noticed an issue when using the Mal0tf fonts in FireFox. The word അന്താരാഷ്ട്ര is not rendered correctly. Please see the attachment. I think these patches should be applied upstream ASAP.
Comment 39 Manilal 2008-01-02 05:44:31 EST
Created attachment 290646 [details] Screenshots of openoffice and firefox using pango and icu patches from SMC. The fonts used are Mal0tf and Rachana_g02
Comment 40 Rahul Bhalerao 2008-01-30 06:01:06 EST
Pravin, your message in comment #23 confused me a bit. In the second paragraph, you say you don't agree to my solution, while in the last line, you are asking me my suggestion on the changes required in font to support the old script. As of now, I have only one tested solution for this. Make the reordering in pango to support typewriter script and make changes in old script font to suit the reordering. There is one more solution hopping in my mind but yet to be tested. On uniscibe, the typewriter script font uses contextual chain subs (instead of reordering) to implement 'pra' kind of ligatures. Although OpenType specs for typewriter(reformed) malayalam script suggest 'reordering at the start of syllable' for this 'post base' ligature, I expect the old script font to work out of box for this arrangement, but not sure (I have not tested any windows machine for this). I think pango still has problem handling contextual chain subs for indic scripts. If this can be implemented, all the fonts would work seamlessly on all the platforms. I think Behdad can inform and help more on this.
Comment 41 Rahul Bhalerao 2008-01-30 06:03:37 EST
Btw, supporting both the scripts is a high priority for me too :)
Comment 42 Praveen A 2008-02-01 02:59:32 EST
So lets do it the right way. If contextual chain subs are the ways to lets do it. I will see if I can find someone ready to work on this if Behdad is ready to mentor. The important thing is fixing the rendering issues. 1) suruma patch fixes most of the issues 2) If you provide both suruma style and uniscribe style conjuncts for va and ya, it works with Vista, suruma patched pango and qt. That would mean we can maintain one font that works in Vista and pango (if Microsoft is ready to fix XP, then there also, but we can't do anything there). 3) At least that gives a one-direction compatibility it is better than incompatibility So my choices/priority 1) fix pango to render fonts the way uniscribe does - difficult and we don't know how much work is needed. If contextual chain subs are the way to I'm all for it. 2) suruma way - we know it works - one way compatibility 3) break away from uniscribe and come up with a standard for Free Software implementations and fix the issue once and forever. The important thing is we have to get it out sooner than later and the fastest way is suruma approach.
Comment 43 Rahul Bhalerao 2008-02-05 04:38:03 EST
For breaking away from Uniscribe, we need to find the real problems in uniscribe. I have already documented few ambiguities and skipped reorderings in uniscribe. About suruma, I am not confident about the way it handles Ya and Va. If it needs to use 'akhn' tag, then I am not with it. Both of these are having post-base forms and it should be retained.
Comment 44 Behdad Esfahbod 2008-02-08 18:52:23 EST
Problem is, I don't know the Indic shaping rules or model at all. What I do know is that we really, really should stay as close as possible to Uniscribe. There's no point in implementing OpenType shaping afterall if we have different requirements.
Comment 45 Praveen A 2008-02-09 01:36:48 EST
The way suruma handles Ya and Va works well with Uniscribe version in Vista. We have a solution with 'akhn' tag and we know it fixes many issues. We are not very particular about it. Unless someone commits to fix it without going the 'akhn' we need to use this as it is much worse to leave it broken. 1) Use 'akhn' as in suruma patch - we know it fixes many serious rendering bugs and it is used by everyone in the Swathanthra Malayalam Computing Community. 2) Some one has to commit to fix it without using 'akhn'. We can't leave it broken as it is now. So if you are not with 'akhn' you have to fix it with post-base or get someone to commit it. If Red Hat or someone else who wants uniscribe compatibility can commit resources we have no objections to it. I am repeating our priority here again. WE CANNOT LEAVE IT BROKEN.
Comment 46 Suresh 2008-02-09 06:26:20 EST
I started with suruma font with a patch for pango which then had problems with chillu and post base forms.The chillu issues is solved by turning on ZWJ processing for Malayalam in the pango and by adding ZWJ in the chillu GSUB entry in the font.I used 'akhn' for for the post base forms which solved the issues with the post base forms. After that, I implemented my idea in the Rachana font for solving the shaping issues.In the g02 and later versions of the font I retained the uniscribe features too which means the font can also be used with the qt, unpatched. I think it is better not to use post/below base forms of RA and LA for xRA and xLA ligatures.Because there are some consonants whch can't take the isolated post/below base forms of LA and RA.Eg. YA + RA, YA + LA. RA+RA etc.So for the reformed script we may have to design some glyphs for xRA and xLA ligaures.It is worth the effort because we get better and desired rendering.Moreover, AFAIK, none of the non-uniscribe shaping mechanisms make use of the Language System Tags from the font.(MAL for Malayalam traditional script and MLR for Malayalam reformed script) Now the issues with post base YA and VA forms still persist with pango(like the 'consonant + ് + യ + ക' shaping issue).Recently I have found a workaround for this at the font level which I will be using in the next versions of Rachana/Meera fonts.
Comment 47 Praveen A 2008-02-09 15:39:33 EST
This is really exciting. As now only issue 3 from Comment #8 is left unresolved (as per Suresh's last comment). Behdad, g03 fonts (designed for suruma patch with 'akhn' tag for Ya and Va) work with Uniscribe version in Vista and QT. Rahul, from Suresh's last comment we can solve the issue with xRa by adding some more conjuncts in Lohit font (MalOtf, another popular MLR font, already uses this method). What do you think?
Comment 48 Rahul Bhalerao 2008-02-09 16:09:14 EST
Behdad, I really appreciate your view that we should try to be as close to uniscribe as possible. Things do not have so many problems there. Only way to achieve that would be to follow the OpenType specs themselves. Considering the issues around Ya (0D2F), Ra (0D30), La (0D32) and Va (0D35) I would again refer to the Appendix B about the consonant forms at: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/otfntdev/indicot/appen.aspx It is clearly mentioned that Ya and Va both have Post Base forms in both old(MAL) and new(MLR) scripts. Whereas La has Below Base form in both the scripts. If we follow this strictly, I do not think there would be anything else breaking around it. (IMO the 'akhn' tag has completely different objective and should not be mixed here even if it works for few cases.) About 'Ra', I still find the description in the above document to be ambiguous. Yet, I am open to learn the trick used in Uniscribe for this. If no one succeeds in doing that, then and only then we should follow a different approach.
Comment 49 Rahul Bhalerao 2008-02-09 17:25:33 EST
Praveen, My observations about 'akhn' for Ya and Va vary a lot. Firstly, they did not work on the uniscribe in XP. As far as I know, there aren't any changes about these conjuncts in Vista. In any way, 'akhn' tag used on anything that is reordered internally will override the natural sequence of the characters in other cases. e.g. try the plain sequence of 0D4D+0D2F (്യ) without any initial consonant. On pango with Rachana_g02, this resulted in formation of the post-base Ya glyph which is wrong. Try testing something like (Ka+Halant+Va)+Ya. I would expect 'akhn' Ya will break the initial cluster of KaHalantVa. (These are only examples of what may go wrong, I have not tested it in real on Vista yet.) About Ra, I assume by 'xRa' you mean the conjuncts of type 'Consonant+halant+Ra'. Here using reformed script has completely different objective. Reformed script IMO should be used to have only minimal set of glyphs present in font. Your suggestion does not help that. More, I am also concerned about the conjunct glyphs that will also need this post-base form of Ra but may not have a related glyph in font. Its always better to make this happen automatically. This is happening in uniscribe currently. Behdad, sorry for such long descriptions, I understand it would be difficult for you to follow the script mechanisms being discussed here. But lets hope we at least manage to implement what is already standardized and working well :) Thanks.
Comment 50 Suresh 2008-02-10 21:58:58 EST
Rahul says "Reformed script IMO should be used to have only minimal set of glyphs present in font." We can't place a below base form LA every time we encounter a 'VIRAMA, LA' sequence.This is against the orthographic rules in Malayalam.The same reason holds true for post base form of RA ,too. Vis-à-vis the the VA and LA forms issues, the use of 'akhn' was for overcoming the some shaping issues in pango.Now I clould sovle this issue at the font level using the 'pstf' tag itself and using the 'VA/LA, VIRAMA' sequence in the GSUB.I will make available this font for testing. -suresh
Comment 51 Behdad Esfahbod 2008-02-11 01:04:51 EST
What typically puzzles me and makes me very hesitant to commit patches to the Pango indic module is when people say "works with Qt". Guess what, Pango's indic shaper was quite like Qt's a couple years ago. Then more and more "fixes" where committed to Pango, each breaking a dozen other combinations... And we've got into the spaghetti that we have now... What we need first and foremost is a test suite.
Comment 54 Rahul Bhalerao 2008-02-11 03:55:51 EST
Suresh, Thanks that you realized using 'pstf' tag :). This is what I have been asking for so long. Keep post-base forms post-base, below-base to below-base, both in font and rendering engine and avoid using 'akhn'. Whenever (in rare cases) you do not want to use them in those forms try some other remedies in font and do not touch rendering engine for everything. Thanks.
Comment 57 Suresh 2008-02-12 02:22:24 EST
There is correction in my earlier comment.I messed up with LA and YA. The line Vis-à-vis the the VA and LA forms issues... should be Vis-à-vis the the VA and YA forms issues... and ... 'pstf' tag itself and using the 'VA/LA, VIRAMA' sequence ... should be ... 'pstf' tag itself and using the 'VA/YA, VIRAMA' sequence ... I had to add some glyphs for the 'pstf' stuff to work.So it was a workaround. For the RA and LA, I have specified the reason for the non-usage of post base forms and it is entirely different.It is related to orthography. When the rendering go haywire with only one particular system we, naturely, go for the fix in that specific rendering system.
Comment 58 Praveen A 2008-04-01 11:15:59 EDT
qt4.4/harfbuzz patch is submitted upstream please test and comment https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=160218
Comment 59 Jens Petersen 2008-04-14 01:55:27 EDT
Behdad, any chance we can have the patch in the upstream bug included in F9? This issue seems to be giving considerable pain to the Malayalam community.
Comment 60 Praveen A 2008-04-14 02:16:51 EDT
It is indeed painful to see the patch sitting in the bugzilla unattended for more than 5 weeks now.
Comment 61 Behdad Esfahbod 2008-04-21 20:45:29 EDT
Which patch? Which version of which product?
Comment 62 Jens Petersen 2008-04-21 21:49:06 EDT
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=106776 Rahul and Ani, have we tested this patch for the pango in current pre-F9 rawhide?
Comment 63 Jens Petersen 2008-04-22 21:18:16 EDT
Rahul, would you please review the upstream patch?
Comment 64 Manilal 2008-04-25 02:02:39 EDT
Recently I have updated lohit-fonts-malayalam in F8(version 2.1.9), and it seems that still there are issues. The Fedora community is on the brim of a brand new release and it would be really nice to see all the issues resolved. Basically the fonts looks ugly(see the items 5 and 4 in the attached image). There are also critical rendering errors(items 1, 2 and 3 in the image). I have also attached the screenshot of the same page with Meera fonts(developed by SMC). The system is installed with the latest pango(pango-1.18.4). I am sure that the above issues are due to the fonts, because the issues in pango are now completely fixed. I believe that the traditional fonts, which is very much familiar to the Malayalees makes more sense in computers. The typewriter fonts were developed in an effort to ease the typesetting in printing press and it may not be relevant in computers. If the bugs are not resolved within the timeframe, at least consider making the Meera fonts(it's already in F9 repo) mandatory for Malayalam Language support in F9 and remove lohit-fonts-malayalam as a prerequisite for applications such as Openoffice.org. I wish F9 would be the first GNU/Linux distribution with error-free Malayalam rendering and interface(80% translation of GNOME is completed)
Comment 65 Manilal 2008-04-25 02:05:45 EDT
Created attachment 303741 [details] Screenshot of firefox with lohit-fonts-malayalam-2.1.9 Screenshot of firefox with lohit-fonts-malayalam-2.1.9
Comment 66 Manilal 2008-04-25 02:06:43 EDT
Created attachment 303742 [details] Screenshot of firefox with Meera Font(SMC) Screenshot of firefox with Meera Font(SMC)
Comment 67 Rahul Bhalerao 2008-04-25 09:05:45 EDT
I see there are basically three kind of problems visible here: 1. the positioning of (Consonant+Halant+Ra) glyphs 2. Substitutions of few Conjunct+HalfRa glyphs, due to the wrong ligatures. 3. The particular combination involving Ya and KaHalantKa. The first kind of problem happened, since I copied the glyphs given by Hiren. Unfortunately he had used a different scaling Ascent-Descent values than the original default Lohit. This caused the positions to distort with respect to other glyphs. The second problem, I am not sure how it got in, since I had only copy pasted the fixes given to me. Now after spotting the problem, ligature rules are certainly incorrect for the conjuncts plus Ra glyphs. The third problem, is a left behind of the earlier implementation of pango, that did not use post-base Ya properly. Only reported problem related to this was post-base Ya followed by Ka, but not the KKa. So this is not a new, but ignored-for-long-time bug.This is probably present in Rachana as well. The font in F9, was released quite a long time back and ensured testing by Ani. So we had ample time to test and correct these kind of last minute fixes. Unfortunately they were not reported until recently, even now they are not reported as separate bugs. Said that these are not very complex issues, they could have been solved on time provided they were reported in time. Anyways, I would still try to get the fixes right into f9-final. One more probable problem I think is the ligature for samvruthokaram that was present in Hiren's fixes. After comparing it with other fonts, I am not sure if thats the correct glyph. Appreciate inputs on that.
Comment 68 Hiran Venugopalan 2008-04-28 04:23:35 EDT
The ligature for samvrathokaram is working correctly, what I did was adding a new glyph for samvrathokaram, as what it is done in Raghu font by Suresh|Suruma.For that glyph too, the right bearing is wrong. My fixes are done just to make a better font and I still believes the font (with my fixes) is buggy. Considering the font as a font designer and as a language user/l10n volunteer I feel the font to be worthless, unattractive and unreadable. The design of some glyphs are done in wrong manner, proportion of glyphs are not correct and the font contains more irrelevant glyphs. Being a default font for a language, it is supposed to be good (at least readable) at the screen and paper, which the lohit malayalam fails on both. This font requires a heavy modifcation, that too from its scratch. point out the fact that this version of fedora is the one which contain many malayalam localisation efforts and pacakges than any old fedoras. Hence it is disappointing to have such a fedora with 'more than a buggy' font. Its a fact that the lohit malayalam is unstable font and suggestions for solutions are : 1. Make the lohit malayalam bugfree in every sence : which includes redesigning of existing glyphs, making of more than 600 more glpyhs to get transformed into traditional font pattern and some technical things (I suggest an year and a half for that.).Lohit is now is neither an typewriter font or traditional font, it is a mix of both. Even to follow the same idea, certain more glyphs are required for the font. OR 2. Freeze lohit malayalam, let it be so there or in trash. Make any other Free Software fonts as the default font for F9. Suggested font is Meera of smc-font package. And allow lohit malayalam designers to work on the developements. Bad fonts results in bad computing. Hiran Venugopalan http://hiraneffects.blogspot.com
Comment 69 Jens Petersen 2008-04-28 20:30:30 EDT
Hiran, thank you for your comments and feedback on Lohit Malayalam. We need to separate the rendering and fonts issues as far as possible. It would be very helpful if you could open a separate bug against lohit-fonts (or multiple bugs) detailing the problems and issues with it. It sounds like we probably need a tracking bug for it too.
Comment 70 Bug Zapper 2008-05-13 22:57:41 EDT
Changing version to '9' as part of upcoming Fedora 9 GA. More information and reason for this action is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugZappers/HouseKeeping
Comment 71 Tony Fu 2008-09-09 23:12:01 EDT
requested by Jens Petersen (#27995)
Comment 72 Manilal 2009-02-17 02:09:16 EST
Fedora 10 renders Malayalam perfectly and the default font package is also changed. This ticket may be closed ASAP.
Comment 73 Rajeesh 2009-05-08 07:19:52 EDT
I guess we should have closed this bug long time back. :-)