http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/commit/?id=2b8f6883a17b

This message is a reminder that Fedora 20 Accepted Changes 100%
Completed Deadline is on 2013-10-15 [1].

All Accepted Changes has to be code complete and ready to be
validated in the Beta release (optionally by Fedora QA). Required
bug state at this point is ON_QA.

As for several System Wide Changes, Beta Change Deadline is a
point of contingency plan, all incomplete Changes will be 
reported to FESCo for 2013-10-16 meeting. In case of any
questions, don't hesitate to ask Wrangler (jreznik).

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/20/Schedule

The basic change to implement this went in, although quite a few packages still bring in rsyslogd as a dependency. I think this feature is fine as it is, and we'll detangle that as part of making separate, targeted Fedora products.

Ok, thanks, moving to ON_QA.

just FTR, journal brings bug #967521 - how could we switch to this nonsense if that one is still unresolved?

well, in fact, how could we even have this activated by default, maybe I'm just out of luck googling, but I see no approval for journal to be used?

Just an FYI This feature is not as simple as no default syslog. We need to fix the entire syslog ( journal/rsyslog/syslog-ng ) implementation in the distribution, come up with virtual provide ( to sub package or not to sub package rsyslog/syslog-ng ) as well as fix roughly 600 packages. Now the proposal on how to do so has been stuck with FPC for 2 years now and until that has been done and fixed this feature can never be considered 100% complete...

(In reply to Jóhann B. Guðmundsson from comment #6)
> Just an FYI This feature is not as simple as no default syslog. We need to
> fix the entire syslog ( journal/rsyslog/syslog-ng ) implementation in the
> distribution, come up with virtual provide ( to sub package or not to sub
> package rsyslog/syslog-ng ) as well as fix roughly 600 packages. Now the
> proposal on how to do so has been stuck with FPC for 2 years now and until
> that has been done and fixed this feature can never be considered 100%
> complete...

I agree that that's the target, and also that it will continue to be slow-moving. This feature was intentionally meant to slice off and accomplish a small portion of that.

My comments are not intended to be a remedy, fix, enoursement of a fix/remedy or anything other than a "data point".

If you guys need a "lab rat", let me know.

B

(In reply to Matthew Miller from comment #7)
> (In reply to Jóhann B. Guðmundsson from comment #6)
> > Just an FYI This feature is not as simple as no default syslog. We need to
> > fix the entire syslog ( journal/rsyslog/syslog-ng ) implementation in the
> > distribution, come up with virtual provide ( to sub package or not to sub
> > package rsyslog/syslog-ng ) as well as fix roughly 600 packages. Now the
> > proposal on how to do so has been stuck with FPC for 2 years now and until
> > that has been done and fixed this feature can never be considered 100%
> > complete...
> 
> I agree that that's the target, and also that it will continue to be
> slow-moving. This feature was intentionally meant to slice off and
> accomplish a small portion of that.

That is one of the core problem people really as in that feature and related work are just implemented up to the point it serves the feature requester need ( and is labelled as 100% feature completed ) as opposed to the actual work required to implement properly into the distribution.

What we need to do is to keep distribute wide changes as these in a separated branch and switch all the components at the same time when the feature actually is 100% feature complete

bug 967521 got mistakenly closed, long live bug 1006386 ...

So. Um.

Fedora 20 Final TC3, desktop, installed from DVD, has rsyslog.

comps group @standard has rsyslog. This means it will be installed by default in anything but a minimal install.

So, this Change does not actually seem to have been implemented as planned at all: "Specifically, remove rsyslog from the @core or @standard groups in comps."

What gives?

Throwing 'Documentation' and 'ReleaseNotes' keywords on here to alert the relevant folks that this feature does not appear to have been implemented as described.

(In reply to Adam Williamson from comment #11)
> So. Um.
> 
> Fedora 20 Final TC3, desktop, installed from DVD, has rsyslog.
> 
> comps group @standard has rsyslog. This means it will be installed by
> default in anything but a minimal install.
> 
> So, this Change does not actually seem to have been implemented as planned
> at all: "Specifically, remove rsyslog from the @core or @standard groups in
> comps."
> 
> What gives?

It's a bit more complicated - FESCo at the end agreed, to remove rsyslog only from @core (the Change should be updated to reflect that in better words, Matt ;-) - but it says remove rsyslog from @core or @standard; it was removed from @core). But it's also removed from the Desktop Live, our "default" offering. From this point of view, it's correct, see fedora-desktop-packages.ks, line 21 (https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/spin-kickstarts.git/tree/fedora-desktop-packages.ks).

The release announcement needs to reflect this correctly

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F20_release_announcement#No_Default_Sendmail.2C_Syslog

(In reply to Jóhann B. Guðmundsson from comment #14)
> The release announcement needs to reflect this correctly
...

well, it could finally name the change correctly - the test reads "Fedora 20 ... replaces some services" and "The systemd journal now takes the place as the default logging solution"

so the title should read something like "Systemd-journald as default syslog"

(In reply to Karel Volný from comment #15)
> well, it could finally name the change correctly - the test reads "Fedora 20

s/test/text/ :-)

Closing this bug as this Change was delivered in Fedora 20 release. Please, reopen in case of any issues you encounter regarding this Change completion.